nadia ettwein and maria denise dessimoz
a visual dialogue
For this A Visual Dialogue, we introduced two strangers, South African Nadia Ettwein and Maria Denise Dessimoz from Greece (both in issue #14) whose dynamic work for this A Visual Dialogue shares an uncanny similarity. Their exchange feels like eavesdropping on an intimate conversation between old friends, navigating the difficult terrain of limiting beliefs. As they share their images, they unintentionally find a path to light - a process of uncovering and removing past burdens that marks a beginning. It’s a process but it has begun.
holes of light
Nadia:
Dear Maria
I know I ranted about AI last week, and like you said, let’s question our interactions with what is not human or real. It can probably solve the world's problems, but it can never replace the way you and I feel.
There is this quote from Francesca Woodman going around in my head this last week. She said: " you cannot see me from where I look at myself". She is right. No one can be you.
I made this photo at the Museum of Illusions. I miss my real mom.
Maria:
Dear Nadia.
From your previous email, I had the instinct to look at photos from my past and retouch one from when I was a kid. I look at my past self and made these holes of light as a symbol of lightness and hope. In this young age, our belief system is not made yet and our brain is still open to infinite possibilities. We are like a sponge taking in all kinds of information. In the end with Ai or not, we are the creators of our own realities which is based in our belief system. Do you think that we are holding ourselves back from experiencing our most desired reality?
Nadia:
Dear Maria
When I looked at both our images placed together, the holes reminded me of ones and zeros in data and also things that are missing.
The beautiful photo you made from your past, led to a literal unboxing of memories and photos I have been avoiding opening. I think I was trying to figure out this box and when I placed the baby scan, I imagined being that little untouched human.
To answer your question about holding ourselves back, I think we are. We are older now, we are no longer those 'sponges' but perhaps filters instead. Our beliefs are based on what we know, what we have experienced and what we have been told is possible. This contributes to our reality of the world. My perception of the world around me is the consequence of my experiences.
Perhaps this is where the tension lies between us and AI (technology or whatever wants to scrape us), is that it can process what we feed it but can't have our capacity of feelings or having that imagination like a kid. Perhaps that is something we forget?
Here's a question. How much of our limitations are self-imposed and of our own making?
Maria:
Dear Nadia.
I believe limitations are created unconsciously from a young age and most of us aren't even aware of them. Due to fear and trauma response, we built a belief system that for a time served us (and heped us) to survive. We got addicted to these patterns of thinking, and we became prisoners of our own mind. As you said our perception is the consequence of our experiences.
Being aware of those, looking back to the past and unboxing memories we can now see reality with new eyes. Facing our memories and our wounds is an important step, that not many are willing to make.
I thought about your brave action, unboxing memories you were avoiding and I believe that is a step towards light and clarity. We cannot forget but can we forgive?
Nadia:
Hey Maria.
Thank you for your beautiful reflection. It seems like we are both doing something with past photos and memory relating to belief systems.
To be honest, since this visual dialogue, my abusive mother has resurfaced. She was the one who sent me the box. Unboxing those memories is/was very uncomfortable. It feels like I don't want to dwell there, as it always triggers me. I was almost expecting a dead animal.
To answer, I think forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting. Pain can't be erased. There's this saying " the woodcutter forgets, but the tree remembers". Connecting with (past) photos is like acknowledging the memory and the pain it has for me. Forgiving looks like choosing peace or sanity and detaching myself.
You are right, so many of our limitations we keep with us as a way of survival. How much of our internal world is shaped by survival or fear and not choice?
Maria:
Dear Nadia.
I think it's an interesting synchronicity that your mother contacted you at that specific time. Yes true, I also believe we cannot forget but for our own peace of mind, it has to come to the time that we let go and detach, as you said, from the past. For me it feels like I am carrying stones that are not mine to carry. Even in my dreams I feel that something is chasing me and I don't know why. Repeating patterns of thoughts that feel like infinite spirals keeping me back from the present moment. I want to feel light again. I think the more we acknowledge our fear, the more we have the power to alternate our inner world. Wouldn't it be nice to experience life again like the first moments we were born?
Nadia:
Hey Maria.
I'm sorry that its feels like you've been carrying these rocks repeatedly. It's not fair. Your photo stayed with me - the rock bed.
You being chased in dreams sounds familiar. I have been having dreams too, where I'm woken up in my own sweat and tears. I have to change linen and clothes repeatedly at night.
I'm really exhausted. I wouldn't mind peace or, like you said, light again. Perhaps your mind is spiraling to find a solution? I'm not sure how I feel about experiencing life again like you questioned, I don't think I want to return there completely but perhaps touch brief moments of it - the good parts.
Maria:
Hello Nadia,
To your question, I believe the mind uses old patterns to protect the body from potential threat. I also believe the brain functions as a mechanism that has to be updated from time to time. A rewire through consistent external observation of it. Instead of focusing in all the negative aspects, we can try to help ourselves through accepting the reality and find ways to make a positive outcome of any situation, what do you think?
Nadia:
Hey Maria,
I've been thinking a lot about the photos we are making, and what we are saying together narratively in telling a story. I placed them sequentially together and I’m just looking at them for now.
What do you think we are saying together? For me, we are both talking about the same or similar wounds here and want to resolve it. I agree, accepting the reality of what is, and making the best of the situation is powerful in itself.
I'm trying to find a positive outcome, that there will always be new life again even it looks different.
Maria:
Hello Nadia,
I think so too. We are both looking at our past . Sometimes I think even though we want to make the best out of it, we still hold onto these memories, forgetting to live in the present. Its even harder when the past becomes blurry and it doesn't feel like a memory anymore but more as a feeling and a weight in the body that can be hard to identify. How do you experience it?
Nadia:
Hey Maria.
Yeah, I feel that too - how the past can shift from being a clear image into something else.
For me our photos have been a way of making a certain invisible past weight visible, saying that we don't want to say it, and that we do want to clear it out.
This visual dialogue has helped me unpack that box , and thanks for that.
Maria:
Hello Nadia.
Thank you too, I also feel this way. Even though I think I'm still in the beginning of the process, I believe another reality can be made, a lighter and softer version of ourselves that has released all the weight of the past.
I wish you the best :)
Following the collaboration we asked Nadia and Maria about the experience.
What was your personal experiences of A Visual Dialogue process?
Maria: It was interesting to interact visually with another artist from the other part of the world. Personally it was a bit challenging to keep the deadline, because creating something meaningful can't be put in a specific timeframe. Sometimes it can take days or months to make even a single picture that has essence for me.
Nadia: It was both a vulnerable and grounding experience for me. Engaging in this visual dialogue with Maria has opened a space for me to unpack things, to look and think about things I wasn't ready to look at.
Even though the dialogue wasn't easy for me, the images started to speak a shared narrative between us - we were both looking at the past and trying to figure things out.
How do you feel about the outcome?
Maria:
The outcome was interesting, especially the interaction with the other artist gave me new perspectives and inspiration. Finally I would say it still has space for further development because it is something new to me that can be discovered even deeper.
Nadia: I don’t feel that the outcome resolved everything neatly for me. It did allow me a space just to create and explore this - and that was enough for me. Looking at my and Maria's images sequentially, feels like this special story told between us is about our past.
How will it affect the way you work, or think about making work in the future?
Maria:
This experience was important because it is kind of the beginning of my new project, starting from digging in the past and facing old wounds.
Once again, I would like to say that I am more than grateful and I wish to have more meaningful interactions in the future. Through connection we grow.✨
Nadia: I’m inspired by how Maria experiments with her images - she has a special way of making it her own. I loved the whole turn-based dialogue, and it made me take my camera with me again.