enrique pezo gómez and tam stockton
a visual dialogue
Enrique Pezo Gómez from Peru, living in Spain and Tam Stockton from USA enter into a discourse about the roles and challenges of the photographic image in their A Visual Dialogue. Once they got into the spirit of the process they collaborated to create a deeply meaningful and dialectical exchange of compelling images and texts.
of what should be
TAM - Feb 28, 2024
Hey Enrique,
I want to start by saying that I really enjoyed your submission to see-zeen #10! I feel that the practice of engaging critical histories through art, making unseen narratives visible and accessible, is one of the most valuable ways that we can engage with photography as a medium. Your work pursues this in a way that feels exploratory, without falling into the trap of overly aestheticizing issues that have traditionally placed lives at stake. With this being said I’m curious how you might like to approach our visual dialogue? I can think of a few forms: a series of questions responded to with varied answers from each of us, a more traditional approach where we respond to the other’s work based on form, or perhaps even a constraint–using only a phone camera, or deciding to shoot only BW images! If you have ideas or a strong preference I’d love to hear it. Excited to get started!
All the best,
Tam
ENRIQUE - Feb 28, 2024
Hello Tam,
Nice to greet you and establish this visual dialogue.
Allow me to introduce myself; I am a Peruvian currently living in Madrid (right now, it's 4am jaja). I sense that our trains of thought embrace change, whether it be through physical displacement or the "fractured memories we leave behind". This often reshapes our own identities and thoughts, influenced by the territories we inhabit.
I wonder if, through the dialectical images we will construct over time, we can find an opportunity to redefine our worlds that have not yet crumbled.
Living in Madrid, for example, led me to reflect on my own identity. I grapple with questions involving migration and, of course, the symbolic weight of Latin America in Spain. How can we find a unique voice in a space that does not belong to us?
Perhaps, as a threshold to our visual dialogue, we can document how we confront the ruptures caused by change. How do others see us? How do we want to be perceived? Or what do we want to convey about ourselves to others?
(I don't want to dictate the form of documentation; I prefer to focus on the content)
Let me know your thoughts.
Best wishes,
e-
TAM - March 2
, 2024
Hey Enrique,
Sorry for the delayed response! This sounds great, I’m working on some images as we speak that seem to resonate with your idea of "confronting the ruptures caused by change.” If you’d like I could send over an image in the next week to get us started. Of course if you have a picture that you’d like to start our exchange with, I’d be more than happy to work from that.
TAM - March 5, 2024
Hey Enrique,
Here is the first image for our exchange! This was made as a continuation of a series that investigates how explorations of image surface can establish the physicality of our relationship to the photographic image. The main goal of this exploration is to make images that remind us that the world depicted goes beyond the screen, or page, or web-based magazine! I hope that this will be something that you can work from.
ENRIQUE - March 11, 2024
Hello Tam,
The research you propose is important, it led me to recognise the photographic image from its own physicality, just as you propose. Also, in thinking about the ruptures to the conventional, as if it were an urgency to root ourselves to its formality, and to recognise ourselves in its own roots.
I share this image with you, cracks/breaks that are expelled in a zigzagging trajectory. Trying, perhaps, to go beyond the limits of my own subjectivity.
TAM - March 12, 2024
Hi Enrique,
I spent some more time with your image. There is something truly wonderfully photographic in the termite lines in the surface of the wood that stems from the gorgeous texture you managed to capture. Much like an image, this pattern is a record of time (the creature’s slow trajectory through the wood, the period of labor), and space (the absence of wood, the consumption that creates inhabitable space). What is left of the natural process of these creature’s diet has become a record of their movement–and in the way that we might create an image in order to etch a surface with our memory, the termites have done so out of habit. This led me to think about how our own construction and consumption creates records, and how might these differ and relate to these smaller processes.
ENRIQUE - March 13, 2024
Hi Tam,
Thank you for your answer.
Patterns, structures and discourses - represented in photographs - which is nothing more than the intervention of a living being in space-time. If I think of the concept of the termite, I like to think of its essentially marginal condition, with an urge to reduce the gaps to centrality.
The human being, in his eagerness to dominate territories, has represented himself in solid figures, configuring -without a doubt- the landscape itself, as you point out in your previous image. Plastic tarpaulins that try to hide that other excavated side, next to a concrete space that could be a car park (the great invention of "modern civilisation”) In response to this, I share the vestiges of a civilisation represented in stone, still trying to remain, resisting time and the termites of nature. I ask myself, is nature a marginal “other”?
TAM - March 14, 2024
Hi Enrique,
Wow what a question! I think it would be hard within the position of being a singular human being to be able to relate to nature as an entity that isn’t other. Having said this, I’m not sure that this otherness precludes self identification within the larger strata of natural workings. I think at times it’s easier to disassociate the self from a natural context–especially when the spaces that we live, sleep, and work are so heavily constructed from the bones of a more peaceful natural order. However, I think there is a risk in this disassociation–if we completely separate ourselves from the other, we lose the understanding of responsibility. It has become so easy for us to avert our eyes because the material toll that built our comfort has been erased from sight–hidden behind beautiful images that remove us from the physicality of our relationship to nature, to the other. I hope that there is still space for us to separate from the false surface of the image and recognize the natural and physical reality that we are at risk of losing.
March 14, 2024
Hello Tam,
I was thinking about our relationship with nature as that "otherness" constructed from Western hierarchical and dichotomous thinking. In indigenous Amazonian communities, for example, there is a horizontal relationship between human-nature. It is important to think of ourselves from there in order to imagine that physicality - of which we insist on speaking - as a measure of reinvindication of other knowledges that point sharply and pointedly at Western collective memory. Of course, the photographic image is a tool for transiting these discussions, as well as being a device for resisting the narratives that remain on the peripheries of territory and thought.
TAM - March 15, 2024
Enrique,
I’m curious about this idea of a horizontal relation between human and nature and in what ways that still might suggest a separation of sorts or if this horizontal movement is one of equation? I fully agree with your point of western hegemonic powers ascribing a hierarchical power structure to our relation to resources (and just about every other system that the west has managed to touch), and it makes me think of Geoffrey Batchen’s book Burning With Desire in which Batchen discusses how the western academic notion of what was natural is deeply tied to the desire to photograph. Of course photography shares a fate with the natural world–becoming a tool to strengthen the grip of western globalization and presenting a means to take something that is never truly ours. Perhaps it is only natural (haha get it?) that in the same moment we question how to use photography as a tool to challenge the hegemonic power structures, that we must also resituate our relationship with nature? I’ll follow your beautiful image of flowers with another of the same subject–flowers superimposed upon a space where they can’t be found.
ENRIQUE - March 15, 2024
Hello Tam,
Based on what you say, it led me to think about how the photographic apparatus functions as a window - or a showcase - to what we are interested in looking at. However, when we think about the register of nature itself (that "other") it is almost utopian to think of a totalitarian register, it is more about a minuscule sensation as human beings. This is precisely where my argument lies: Western thought puts us in a position of superiority to everything and everyone, but nature and its sublime logic is a breaking point for modern rationality.
I tell you (I don't know if I mentioned it before), my geographical and cultural origin is from Iquitos, a small city in the middle of the Amazonian region of Iquitos. A space threatened by human/economic greed, shaping the territory and the ways of thinking. My place of enunciation operates in thinking about other possibilities of relations with my territory.
I share with you this image that serves as a visual extension of what I am telling you. "Choosing a tree". The minuscule "I" and the capital "other". A small window to observe the artificiality of human nature, and at the same time, the naturalness of the artificiality of the forest.
TAM - March 16, 2024
Hi Enrique,
This breakage within modern rationality–especially in regard to nature, and by extension space–is something that has also felt particularly relevant to me recently. It strikes me that so much of this rationality is predicated on a denial–or often attempted erasure–of the impossible nuance held within all natural systems. Entire worlds, cultures, and peoples have been essentialized into strict categories and labeled as separate. This separation of the categorical seems to function as justification for hierarchical control-if you can name something you can control/own that same body, defining how it should operate, creating a mythos of what should be and calling it rationality. The beauty of nuance is that upon close inspection, the categorical ceases to exist, leaving our world intertwined like the branches of your lovely tree. It’s truly wonderful to meet artists like yourself who are attempting to create work that lives alongside complexity, and celebrates the incredible possibilities that are available when we try to fully engage as a piece of a larger whole rather than as a photographer and ’subject’. My image here is one of many made in attempt to create pictures that refuse categorization, but still photographically function as discernible references. Accepting and understanding our lack of total understanding is just one of many steps along the path towards a more empathetic engagement with the complexity we are all held within.
ENRIQUE - March 17, 2024
Hello Tam,
It is extremely relevant to consider how the system is designed to create gaps that highlight power perspectives within our own territories. A hierarchical structure in which bodies adhere to a normative scenario. This discussion leads me to think about what "history" means, a system of thought narrated by the victors. We can think of "the history of the discovery of America," "the history of rubber in the Amazon," "Greco-Roman history," etc., which are nothing more than official narratives about a certain space-time. However, these narratives invisibilize other bodies, those of the defeated.
Is it possible to reject categorization? The main structure for perpetuating vertical perspectives — hierarchies — are museums. Navigating them means infecting our minds with their "truthful" narrative. However, there is an effort to put these categories under tension — or crisis — to rethink other possible narratives.
I greatly appreciate these exchanges of thoughts/texts/images. I share with you this image, a way to assume occidentalism as a category. I insert myself into the frame, also occupying the reflection of a mirror to recognize myself.
TAM - March 18, 2024
Enrique,
The gesture that you make by inhabiting a frame that speaks of history speaks beautifully of that artistic capability to challenge the official narratives that you mention. For me, the key to your image lies in the fact that your recognition of yourself is moderated by a mirror. I think we could easily imagine someone taking a similar image after setting their camera on a tripod and using a remote trigger–yet, this would only serve to superimpose the body of the artist on top of the history–erasing entirely the histories behind them. What your reflection achieves is a recognition of oneself positioned within the active role of engaging these histories. Trying to hide messy and disturbing pasts, trying to replace the image of the statue in its entirety, would function effectively as a singular statement–but, statements leave less space for complexity and run the risk of shifting hierarchy rather than challenging it. Rather than trying to obscure the narratives that you are challenging, your inclusion serves to disrupt and decontextualize the problematic stories that are so deeply ingrained into popular culture. This simultaneously serves to acknowledge that your engagement with the subject presents an opportunity for narrative revision! When we interact with art, with supposed histories, with institutions, we are given opportunities to adapt, destroy, undermine, and even fictionalize narratives (we certainly know that many institutional narratives aren’t much more than fiction to begin with!). Whether we continue to tell the narratives in the forms that we have been taught with slight revision, or wether we decide to craft new narratives that alter forms entirely, there is incredible potential in the creative disruption of story. With this in mind I’ll send my last image of this particular exchange, I’ve had a wonderful time and I hope to stay in touch!
Warmly,
Tam
ENRIQUE - March 19, 2024
Hello Tam,
Time is cruel. It has been an immense pleasure sharing thoughts with you, using the photographic image as a pretext. I carry with me a series of reflections that emerged during these weeks, concerning our Western construct (how do we take responsibility for it?) and how this system of thought impacts our human and non-human relationships.
To put into tension—through photographic visual devices—discourses and representations in visual culture, regardless of the territory we currently inhabit.
Speculative theory—in other words, the fictionality of reality—has enabled us to shift to modes of thought from the margins, spanning from ancestral cosmologies to modern rationality. In this sense, I appreciate your honesty in using the photographic image as a tool to challenge the normative scenario, to envision other ways of seeing and narrating stories. Finally, I am sending you this image to draw attention to the rhizomatic logics—as a rupture from the hierarchical—between the human and the non-human.
Sending you a warm embrace, and I eagerly anticipate staying connected.
Thank you very much!
e-
Following the collaboration we asked Enrique and Tam about the experience.
Describe the collaborative process with a total stranger on the other side of the world.
Enrique: The language or semiotic codes in correspondence—during the dialogue with Tam—took on a speculative narrative flight about our relationship with the immediate environment. This visual dialogue, besides sharing and extending our viewpoints, has traversed into the realm of imagination, exploring how forms and contents of images coincide, laden with our critical commitment towards traditional narratives and imposed ways of seeing.
Tam: Undertaking the continuous, and concentrated, engagement through photography and writing that A Visual Dialogue is predicated on presented a rare opportunity for direct reflection in another practice. It’s common to find artists that you love, images that you care about, but it's far less common to create in line with a creative practice that responds to your work and cares. Enriques’ generosity in language and analysis helped to elucidate corners of my practice that I have been struggling to verbalize, while trying to formulate a response – either through text or image – existed as a wonderful exercise in experimentation.
How did the visual dialogue affect your work?
Enrique: The outcome reveals more questions than conclusions. That enriches the dialogue because it has been a dynamic with anthropological, philosophical, sociological, and artistic flights. Generating an articulation between various components of the image to project our gazes based on our most honest influences.
Tam: I’m really happy with how everything came together! It’s wonderful to get to meet an artist like Enrique who is dedicated to thinking deeply about image creation. Getting to ask questions, bounce ideas, and explore new ways of thinking through sight is something that I always treasure–but, finding an artist whose concerns relate so heavily to my own was a wonderful reminder of what makes being a part of an artistic community so rewarding. I think in a perfect world, this conversation could have had more time – or even could have occurred offline so that conversations could evolve more naturally than email allows. Even given the time constraints and parameters of this exercise – I was consistently excited to check my inbox and think through possible responses!
How will it affect the way you work, or think about making work in the future?
Enrique: It opens up a collaborative outlook, undoubtedly, an exchange of possibilities regarding representation and discourse. Additionally, I believe that dialogue through the visual realm heralds a new future in photographic practices; it's pleasing because they aren't meant to be completed or to deliver verdicts but to leave a gap open between the future and the present.
Tam: This exercise served as an important reminder for me of the importance of collaboration in art creation. As photographers, it is easy to fall into the trap of believing that our practice is predicated on the time that we spend alone–be it editing, developing, printing etc. when in reality, the core of photography is its relation to an external world–a world that invariably is shaped by the care (or lack thereof) of others. I hope to continue making images in a way that embraces collaboration–be it through shared sight, thinking, or dialogue.